Episode 6: Dancing the Ancient Forms
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Transcript
[00:00:00] Blue: The Theory of Anything podcast could use your help. We have a small but loyal audience, and we’d like to get the word out about the podcast to others so others can enjoy it as well. To the best of our knowledge, we’re the only podcast that covers all four strands of David Deutsch’s philosophy as well as other interesting subjects. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please give us a five -star rating on Apple Podcasts. This can usually be done right inside your podcast player, or you can Google the Theory of Anything podcast Apple or something like that. Some players have their own rating system and giving us a five -star rating on any rating system would be helpful. If you enjoy a particular episode, please consider tweeting about us or linking to us on Facebook or other social media to help get the word out. If you are interested in financially supporting the podcast, we have two ways to do that. The first is via our podcast host site, Anchor. Just go to anchor.fm -4 -strands. There’s a support button available that allows you to do reoccurring donations. If you want to make a one -time donation, go to our blog, which is four strands.org. There is a donation button there that uses PayPal. Thank you. All right, welcome to the Theory of Anything podcast. Today, we’ve got a great episode. We’re meeting with a friend of mine, Sarika Nayak. I have to tell you how I actually met her. I had been working at a place for several years as a consultant and I sat on the front of the row with all the cubicles.
[00:01:43] Blue: A lot of people would stop by and talk to me because if you’re sitting at the front, then you’re very easy to stop and talk to. I’m sitting there and suddenly I look up and there’s this five -foot Indian woman and she’s got this giant smile and she’s got energy just coming off of her. She’s like, hi, I’m Sarika and I’m so excited to be here. She started to explain to me what her job was and she was new today and things like that. Then I would later joke that she would add, and this isn’t actually true, but she would add, and also I’m going to lunch with everybody here to find out what they do. Can I schedule in on Thursday? That was how my first meeting with Sarika and then we became friends after that. She’s actually friends with everybody at the company, but she’s just a very exciting person and she’s full of energy. As I got to know her, I found out that she has a dance business and that she has this great love of dance. There’s so many interesting things culturally around this that I really wanted to do an episode about it. Sarika, can you maybe introduce yourself?
[00:02:48] Red: Thank you, Bruce. I couldn’t have got a better introduction than what you have given. So, as Bruce said, I’m an extrovert. I love talking to people. I love knowing about their culture. I love traveling. That’s what always excites me and gives me that motivation to talk to people and find out and be friends. I have been in Utah for five years now. I have been in the IT industry working as a business analyst, business consultant, and now product owner, and it’s been a 12 years experience in this industry. I have thoroughly enjoyed doing what I do, but apart from that, a big part of me is all about dance. Dance actually transforms me to a different kind of a person. It just makes me a different, free -spirited soul. It just gets me to that mode where dance like no one is watching you. So, yes, dance is a really big part of my life. Apart from that, I have a six year old who always keeps me busy always, and then I’m wife to a research engineer and have been happily married for 11 years now. And a big reason why my life is so beautiful and it’s a celebration is because I have these two boys in my life. So, yeah, that’s about me in a nutshell.
[00:04:31] Green: Wonderful, great
[00:04:32] Blue: introduction. And I can attest to firsthand to the free -spirited nature of Saraka. And by the way, her husband is awfully cool. It would probably be fun to have him on the show sometime too. Saraka, one of the things that you mentioned to me once that I thought was really interesting first of all, let me just mention that you have a dance business. So that’s very interesting. But you also mentioned that part of this dance business was dance therapy, which I had never even heard of before. Can you maybe describe some of your dance business, what you’re doing here, maybe work into that, what dance therapy is and what you do with that, but describe everything around your dance business and how you got it started and things like that.
[00:05:15] Red: Yeah. So, you know what, when I was three years old, my mom just pushed me to a dance class and I was like, why is she doing that? I really didn’t want it to dance. I hated my dance teacher. He looked like a demon to me whenever I went to the class. So, I was never interested, but the more and more I got into it and I realized I’m forgetting everything when I am into this world. And that was my first trigger, which told me that dance could be, it’s an art form or any art form, not only dance, by the way, but any art form, which you’re really passionate about, which you really like, which you can do, actually transforms you to a different person. And, you know, it has been neurologically approved or scientifically approved that because of the intellectual support, what we get from an art form, any art form could be used as a therapy. So, like you would have, I mean, I’m just trying to use an example where the, with its special needs, like a spectrum, if they’re on a spectrum or if they have speech disorders, you would have heard about this music therapy or they would be on this noise cancellation headphones and they would be constantly hearing different patterns of music. It’s just because it helps, this art form helps their brain to calm down or to figure out stuff so easily and it transforms them to a person which they don’t even know about. So, the dance therapy is similarly very similar.
[00:07:09] Red: So, and it’s over here, when I do dancing and I do something which is from my culture or which is from my part of the world, which people in America don’t do often and they don’t know about it. So, for them, it’s a different game altogether. So, when I tell them, hey, in this dance form, you are this actor, you’re this actress, or, you know, we are dancing with this mood or we are representing this festival where people are actually celebrating life. So, zone or that sphere and they pick up the dance moves which explains that, you know, this is what is there representing today, which transforms them to a different person for that one hour of time. So, and after the classes over, they feel so good because they have actually, you know, forgotten anything which was stressing them for that day or for some amount of time for that one hour. So, that is why I call this as dance therapy where people could actually move from one zone what they’re existing right now to another one and can actually stay in that zone for an hour. And as a teacher, as an instructor, that’s what is what makes my job in this field very challenging that how I can keep these people coming into the class engaged in that, in that mood of the song and that sphere in that, in that act which I want them to represent and be engaged for that one hour. So, that’s what, that’s what is all dance therapy all about.
[00:08:57] Blue: Oh, thank you. That’s a great explanation. You know, it’s first of all, let me say that like I’ve seen how this affects Sarka firsthand. Sometimes difficult things are happening at work and you might be in a depressing situation and or whatever things are bad. And then like I happen to know like which night she goes to teach dance class. She always comes back the next morning energized again and like ready to deal with the problems and things like that. So, I’ve actually seen how it does affect her and it’s actually a fairly startlingly strong effect for her. Interestingly, Camille, do you think podcasts count as an art form? That’s a, that’s an interesting question.
[00:09:43] Green: Certainly. But, but I, I think in a, in a, in a very different way. Sure. And then, then what we’re talking about, I, you know, I have a dance background as well. And I have a theatrical and musical background and the power of those art forms. I think for me at least, and I think that that it could probably be different for other people, but I think it is more powerful. And it might just be the love that I have for those art forms and the experiences I have. But certainly anytime that you’re, that you’re creating things, there is an artistic and, you know, the very name. There’s a creative element of that. And that’s what art is, is creating.
[00:10:31] Blue: Yeah. You know, I, the reason why that came into my mind is because like doing this podcast, maybe not to quite the same degree, but it actually does have a similar sort of effect on me because I have to stop and think about what are we going to talk about or something along those lines. And it is creative outlet for me.
[00:10:48] Green: Well, and you’re, you’re not just creating something for yourself. You’re creating something with the intent of it being enjoyed by somebody else, which is also I think a part of why humans make art or, or, you know, participate in things like dance and music. It brings us so much satisfaction for ourselves, but it’s also to share that creation with, with other people. It’s part of what, where the power is.
[00:11:17] Blue: Yeah. By the way, I didn’t know that you were into dance, Camille. I learned something new about you.
[00:11:23] Green: Yeah. Well, that’s, I danced very, very heavily when I was, when I was younger. And I haven’t done formal dance since I was probably 20. But I, I danced, I went on dance tours. I danced very, very heavily when I was young. Wow. Wow.
[00:11:43] Red: That’s a great thing we learned today. Actually, what Camille is saying, it’s the same thing. A lot of people, they were attached to some kind of an art form and something happened in their life. It’s like, you know, they got busy with work or they had a lot of things to deal with the family. And there were things that, which made them disconnect from this art form, whether it’s music or dance. And those are the people also who have been coming to my class because they want to renew this feeling of getting into an art form again. And they always start from with a diverse kind of a culture where they learn about their culture, also learn about their dance styles. So in the theater where I teach, so they have African, they have dance styles and they have Mexican dance styles. They have puro, puro torico dance styles. And they have Hollywood. So, you know, people come back learning about the cultures behind these dances and also get into that, you know, different dance form again. So I could totally relate to what Camille was saying.
[00:12:53] Blue: By the way, just to kind of tie this into some of our past episodes. So I know Sarka wasn’t there for those. But this podcast, a lot of the ideas came out of me reading David Deutsch’s books. And one of the things that he points out that I think is very relevant here is that all types of art, and you can see this with dance also, it’s hard to vary, right? Trying to make a dance good, you can’t just go do anything. It’s difficult to come up with something that’s beautiful, graceful and interesting to watch, right, with a dance performance, or in your case, that creates the create therapeutic situation for the person. Because it’s hard to vary like that, that implies that at least in some sense, it’s objective. It’s not just a subjective thing. It’s something that requires real knowledge to be able to create a good dance that accomplishes the purpose that you’re trying to accomplish. Sarka, tell us about the other things you do in your dance business.
[00:14:00] Red: Oh, I would start with something which is getting super popular, and it’s very interesting, which is our mom and me classes.
[00:14:10] Green: What I noticed
[00:14:12] Red: when I have been taking my son to various classes, and my friends have been taking their daughters to various dance classes, and I’ve noticed that parents are asked to drop the child in the class and pick the child up after one hour of the class.
[00:14:29] Unknown: So
[00:14:29] Red: the parents either talk to each other, like they become friends and talk outside of the class or at home, finish some of their work again, come back to pick the child. But I thought it would be interesting if I would invite some of the parents to see what I was doing with the child, and if you are okay, you can start dancing with the
[00:14:51] Unknown: child.
[00:14:52] Red: So that’s how I came up with this concept of mom and me, Bollywood Dance class. And when I started, there was one kid and the mom and dad were really hesitant to dance, and they were like, no, no, no, we can’t do it. But I was like, okay, you can sit and watch. You don’t have to be away from the class. It’s a very family kind of class. And then now I have more than, we have two batches. So each batch has, one batch has eight kids of four years old. The second batch has 10 kids of between five to eight years old, and they all come with their moms, their elder sisters, and they actually participate in the dance class. So they not only learn the choreography in the class, but also go back home, practice, and when they come back in the next class, they have brilliant ideas on how we can improvise around those ideas.
[00:15:52] Blue: That’s awesome.
[00:15:53] Red: So I love it. I love the energy which the parents are getting. They’re very much involved in the class. So that’s one class which I do on every Sunday, and it’s called as Mom and Me. And then I have my adult classes in the R.D.T., which is our Rose Wagner Theater in Salt Lake Downtown, where, which is like our dance therapy class,
[00:16:19] Unknown: where
[00:16:19] Red: every Thursday
[00:16:20] Unknown: I get the song from
[00:16:22] Red: Hollywood, which is, which relates to a story in India. So if it is a festival song, it would be one of the 30 or 14 festivals which we celebrate in India. And I tell them what that festival is all about, why we dance like this, why the moves of the dance are like this. I show them videos on how people are so passionate when they celebrate those dance moves in that festival. And they really love getting into that mood and doing those moves with us. So similarly, every Thursday, I kind of try to change the mood and the flavor of the song. Sometimes it’s festival, sometimes it’s classical based. I tell them we are going to do a couple of Indian classical moves in the song and what each moves mean. Sometimes I tell them,
[00:17:09] Unknown: you
[00:17:09] Red: know what, you know, we also have a similar culture where we go to fun nights or where we do party in the club like this, and we sing like this, and we dance like this. And you know,
[00:17:21] Unknown: so
[00:17:21] Red: every Thursday it will be a different song. It’s a different mood, different flavor from India, and people really love it. So those are like dance therapy kind of class. And then I have been, interestingly, once our classes got popular, a lot of high school started noticing that it would be a good thing to get, you know, this diversity into our dance company of the high schools and have our high school gets kids be exposed to this culture. So, so right now, Bollipop, which is my dance company, is an official partner, Night District High School, Olympus High School, Hillcrest High School, where every once a year or sometimes a year, we go and we tell them about, we teach them a choreo of four minutes, which includes Indian folk dances, Indian classical dances, and Indian Bollywood movie dances. And we give them kind of a lecture, notes, videos, as in what these what culturally these dance represent, and it’s a good education for them. And it’s a kind of a change for them what they have been doing regularly in the dance company classes. Apart from that, we have a good and great present representation of Indian community in Utah. So where, so we tell it to Bollipop to perform in all these festivals. Then once the summer, you know how we have all these which includes music bands, advanced performance, a lot of time we get invited there to perform. We are also an official partner with others festival, which actually happens in three years in Utah, which is of then Solid City and Spanish Park. And in the Spanish Park, it’s coming up now in March 28, where more than 10,000 people come over all over North America to attend this festival.
[00:19:32] Red: So it’s a huge crowd which turns over where we make all of the crowd move through the Bollywood moves, folk dance moves, and they just absolutely love it. So yeah, this is all which I’ve been doing with Bollipop, and this is all my activities have been till now.
[00:19:54] Green: What is their significance in the dates of when those festivals are?
[00:19:59] Red: Yes. So it happens at a particular time of the year, and there is a story always, there’s a story behind the festival. So there’s a story which would or does, or as we were talking about those villages myth. So those mythological stories have happened during that time of the year. So we celebrate the festival at that time of the year.
[00:20:24] Blue: Interesting. Yeah, interesting. So colors festival must be really big here because like I always know when it’s going on because I’ll be like in Walmart, and there’ll be people walking around with color all over their faces, all over their clothes.
[00:20:38] Green: Have you not ever been to it, Bruce? I have
[00:20:40] Blue: not, but I promise Sarika I’m going this year to see her dance.
[00:20:44] Red: Yeah, the interesting thing, maybe the story is really big, but I think the interesting concept or the moral of colors festival is we celebrate and we just kind of, everyone is colored, and so we just belong to one race of humanity. There is no discrimination of someone is white, someone is brown, someone is black. So that is what the color significance of the colors festival is. Every race, religion, and that is the concept which is light by the people outside of India too. So when you’re with your friends and all are colored in crazy colors, and you know you take picture, no one, I mean you can’t make out she’s Michelle or she’s Clara or you know everyone looks the same. So that’s what is the significance to go to the color festival and the priest of the Krishna temple starts talking. I mean there’s a little bit of good notes he talks about. This is the first thing he inaugurates the festival and you know so I really love that concept. I think kids love, apart from getting colored and getting crazy, they also love you know celebrating it with their friends and family. So yeah that’s what color festival is all about.
[00:22:09] Green: I think part of why it’s so big here in Utah is kind of to your point like the Indian community is not, has been here for a while. I remember when the Krishna temple was built, I grew up you know just south of Spanish gork and I remember going to it you know 30 years ago and I remember or maybe not quite that long but you know I it’s it’s kind of become this thing that’s that’s a part of spring even in Utah that I think people really look forward to.
[00:22:40] Red: Yeah I mean it’s a celebration of the spring as well you know everyone is done with the winter and welcome spring yeah that’s also a big part and it’s the same in India too like you know we celebrate or welcome spring with this festival there are various reasons to do it but yeah that’s what is one of the big significance by your spring. So you guys have to come to color festival.
[00:23:07] Green: We will be there I’ll bring I’ll bring my little girl and we’ll be there.
[00:23:11] Red: Yeah you would love it you would love it yeah and the way we have been growing in Utah with the concepts introduced colors festival it’s amazing it’s like people have trans transform music and then we have we we we get into the mood where everyone gets to try some Indian festival moves and then the Bollywood moves and then the Indian folk moves you make a big circle with with everyone present there and we all dance together I just love that whole positive energy the the festival creates it’s just beautiful so yeah I at least you know once in a lifetime you should experience that.
[00:23:57] Blue: So Sarka you mentioned that you started dancing when you were like three and yeah how you got started dancing how is dance perceived in Indian culture and wanting to learn to do this?
[00:24:11] Red: I think for me it’s my mom who who was really inclined towards art music so she wanted both of us me and my sister to do stuff in this field and try and get trained so she was the one who introduced me to dance and take me to all the classes and then even you know at one point of time it was difficult to go to different classes because of my course in the education side or the academic side so she requested the teacher to come to my house and take tuitions and dance so that is how I got into the dance but as like any other art form even an academic it depends on who your teacher is and what influence your teacher is getting about that art form in you so my teacher back in India is a big big influence on me to take dance in a very positive way and use it as a positivity of your life so he explained me each and every move the story behind it why we do it how we do it and it’s just that his his mere dedication and passion just kind of you know had shaken me from top to bottom and I just get into into dance very easily because of that so because of that influence what he had on me I also enjoy a big part of my dance satisfaction what I get is from teaching so when I’m able to teach and get a smile on someone’s face that’s the best thing in the world for me so as and when I was in high school and you know my teacher assigned me you know to teach stuff so with junior kids or with kids coming of high school who are coming to our different classes so I realized you know even teaching is so so beautiful in dance so that’s that’s how I got more and more involved with dance and I could just never leave it
[00:26:31] Blue: it’s wonderful you know I’m actually also very curious about what it was like to have to leave your homeland and your hometown and to come to America come to a totally different country come to presumably a totally different culture and to try to integrate into that and what was that like I mean I I think I would be scared to try to do that in reverse and go try to live in India so how did that work out for you and how did that go for you
[00:27:00] Red: yeah before I answer that question let me tell you India is a country with 1.4 billion recorded in 2019 so just imagine the population there we have 26 states 14 dialects people talking in different languages in each part of India so just that being the root cause there is lot and lots of competition all around you’ll have a lot of schools competing with each other you know in the job field people competing with the with each other it’s just because we are so densely populated you know a big part of our culture also our parents always teachers you know no you need to be good at this good at this you know we need to survive in this competition so they make sure we we are in a safe place so we do even if you’re dancing they make sure we do our academic you know we have our degrees we go for if we quite go for different forces so that make sure we survive in this 1.4 billion densely populated country but so a big part of that is like we also got into academics and started thinking about our career and my husband who is very good and good at academics and he was he wanted his research after his engineering and he was after his engineering he had been working for a while and he wanted to do a research in medical equipment and the research paper was very very expensive back in India so his company offered that you know come to US and United States and we have our headquarters here work for us and in in turn we will let you do your research and we will bear the cost for it so we were like instantly yes we are coming nice
[00:29:01] Red: so that was that was I think we just didn’t think about anything because you know sometimes it’s you know with the person whom you’re living for a long time what his dream and passion is and and you know if just comes through then yeah let’s grab it so that’s what got us to United States honestly speaking but we actually had in back of our mind you know yeah going and being there for some time is okay but we just don’t know if you want to stay there longer maybe you want to come back and we just came with that mindset to Utah then his research work started and he’s he started doing good he he loved the company the world culture people he met with there was so much of job satisfaction which was there with him so everything was very smooth then my son he he is a kid with I
[00:29:57] Red: wanted help so I started reaching out people and people in Utah were so so good I mean I can’t I don’t have words describe how I was welcomed in Utah every therapy session I went to every therapist I met every teacher I met they were just spending immense amount of time on so I thought you know I might not get this in India because it’s such a every section each class in India has around 60 to 70 students like in one section and you’ll have a bc of first grade a bc of second grade and each section will be of 40 plus so I was like I don’t think so you know my son is going to get what he needs back there so honestly that was the second reason for me to stay back in US so this is how you know and then as and when I started meeting people around work like for example Bruce like every question I mean every silly question I have he just finds time to answer it irrespective of his busy schedule he’ll make sure you know you know this is what it works here maybe you’re just doing in a different way the funny part is I always failed and understand how the Americans talk and I used to literally think everything is true and and and Bruce will always tell me uh I think you didn’t get that Bruce I need to learn that from you how people talk like this for here so so and he was so friendly
[00:31:47] Red: so yeah I just constantly kept meeting people like that you know even in my dance classes and everywhere and then once people started liking my dance classes I now I have a huge group of friends of all age groups who are always available for me so it’s just that love which I have got here the support which I’ve got here just let me stay and I feel that you know I’m getting better opportunities here and that and that’s how I kind of just stayed here and I love eating every minute that I spend here um
[00:32:25] Blue: what type of uh difficulties or roadblocks did you face when you first came here if any
[00:32:31] Red: it would be those cultural stuff where sometimes um it was to understand the way you are talking with the accent as I told the sarcasm then I didn’t know how things work in the in the shop here um driving we drive in India we’re driving right and you guys driving left
[00:32:54] Blue: that’s actually something interesting that Sarka um would ask me about sometimes she would come to me when we were first meeting and becoming friends she would come and she would say okay can you help me understand if this is sarcasm or not and ask me questions like that so yeah
[00:33:11] Red: it’s just like it’s the whole culture which was a little different but because for work I always used to visit us I kind of knew um a few years ago but it’s rather than visiting for some time where people treat you like a guest and then it’s different when you stay here all together and have to figure out things on your own so yeah so um the culture the way things work here how we drive um how um I mean even the school curriculums are so different of my son over here versus India so um yeah everything to gradually learn that and accept that and not compared to what we have
[00:33:53] Green: in India was challenging for me or difficult for me
[00:33:57] Red: uh and of course as an immigrant um at a lot of places I feel that people just don’t trust you instantly um uh they will ask you questions or they’re or they’ll make you do something and then you have to build that trust on them that was also very challenging even at work um you know a task given I always have to complete that task or you know show that task has gone well to prove that you know I’m capable even if and I can do equally well who has who has done versus that was a challenging thing also for me
[00:34:40] Blue: um what was it like trying to integrate with Utah’s kind of conservative religious culture that we’ve got here
[00:34:47] Red: actually that was the easiest part because you know it’s just the same as in India that’s
[00:34:53] Blue: funny so
[00:34:55] Red: you know how I the more I more learned about the conservative culture here like how you know women this reason why it’s like that like um women were most of the women you know take from a family they have you know big family to take care of house men is the one who goes out works so it’s it’s for a longer period of time India has been like that I’ve always seen my mom doing stuff in the house um uh then it’s changing now but you know it’s it that’s what was the similarity what I saw is you know um um you know that that sacrifice and love which a family needs and all the needs in the family is mostly taken care by the family by the women of family and that is what is expected so that was very similar and um so uh interestingly the caretakers I met over here to take care of my son while I’m at work they all were so good they loved kids they like to work with kids I mean it was so naturally coming out uh from them so I love that part so in that way it is similar like you know how your family culture is in Utah it’s very similar back to India there so so that’s that’s one thing and then you know there’s certain there’s a lot of places where you are as a father um I’ve seen that people are very very possessive about their daughters over here like you know that’s again very similar back in India so things like that I found it there is a lot
[00:36:40] Red: of similarities the way we operate as a family um and the way we operate back in India it’s the same thing and
[00:36:49] Blue: interesting so
[00:36:51] Red: I thought it’s a big thing so
[00:36:55] Blue: let’s talk about um kind of the ancient dance forms you’ve mentioned this to me and I’ve come to see you dance at least once with the ancient dance forms and I’m always impressed with how graceful it is um and I would really like to know more about that and no and I from what I understand from talking with you it ties into your mythology and your religion and teaches morals there’s like a whole bunch around it that I would really like to learn more about
[00:37:22] Red: yeah so it’s interesting and I’ll try to say um and share whatever I learned from my teacher because all the dance forms in India have it in 26 states so each dance form is from one of the states and but we have majorly uh seven to nine Indian classical dance forms out of which six or seven is globally very popular um so we have a Parath Natyam which is from the south India we have Udisi which is from the west I do um we have good so yeah these are the various dance forms which are from India um and all the dance forms are almost 2000 years old 2000 years old 2000 years old yeah
[00:38:23] Blue: at least about my dance form it’s definitely thousand years old
[00:38:27] Red: and my place where I where I grew up is actually called as land of temples in India so there are more than 30 to 40 big temples all 2000 years old very beautifully preserved by our architecture department um and when you go around these temples you can actually see all these stories depicted or painted or crafted out there so you can see whatever posters like that you would find one of the I mean all of those posters in this temple but you can see them so originally it started from you know that era where where the poets or the people who were inclined towards art used to write stories and then those stories in form of paintings or statues were actually crafted in these temples all around so that’s a little bit um ancient history behind this dance forms but as we in as we get into the dance and we start you know learning this dance there are each dance forms which will have different kind of posters and there’s explanation why this posture is like that and it always represents a form of Hindu god okay
[00:39:56] Blue: so just let me be clear here there’s like different postures in the dance and each of the postures represents like a different Hindu god that that’s what you’re saying like in a dance yeah
[00:40:07] Red: that’s where the so the posters are from the inspirer are inspired by the Hindu god which you are representing um there is also a lot of storytelling which happens in the dance form and story being Naya means you’re using your face your hand your body to actually tell a story so and um so this the and each story is about about a Hindu god and and how he was or what his character was in that story um i can say an example something which i do is Das avatar Das avatar means 10 incarnations so we all know avatar we have seen avatar um movie right so it’s like it’s nothing but right so we have 10 incarnations so Das means 10 so we have 10 incarnations of lord Vishnu lord Vishnu is is kind i mean he has different like you can visually see him differently in different parts of the world and he also has various names that people chant about um but um all his stories what what is all about you know victory of good were over evil so all his he has always taken a different incarnation to come to the earth to save the humanity from one form of evil that is existing in that era so all these 10 incarnations there is a story he came as so it’s almost like the life of evolution so he was as a fish and then there was there was a place where um there was a era where you know a demon had a power where um he cannot die or no one can kill him uh any human cannot kill him any animal couldn’t kill him and he had a blessing like that from not so Vishnu forms as half human and half lion avatar to to put an end to this demon’s life who’s destroying humanity so these are the kind of stories that are in every 10 eras where he comes and we dance and tell how powerful how beautiful um and how good that era was and how the good conquered over evil so this is this is one thing um another is about Lord Krishna came here was just talking about the Krishna temple so Krishna um Lord Krishna was born and there’s a story behind how he was born and he was staying away from his actual mother in a village because um there was this ultimately he had to grew up to kill his um to kill a demon who’s existing in the kingdom and who’s trying to build his power and destroy humanity so Lord Krishna was saved all his childhood away from this kingdom so that he could grow up come back and kill this demon so there are a lot of stories in his childhood which is so cute where he’s being raised not by his actual mother but how much of love he has for this lady and all that cute little things which happened between Krishna and and his not mother who was not actual we actually depict them in a song in a story and tell we act like a kid crawling and then feeling the butter
[00:43:55] Red: and then hiding behind the pillar and then playing peek -a -boo with the mom we kind of score all that and kind of you know build that that time of the year so these are the things which we tell through any of the classical dance form but it is so beautiful just like ballet like once you start learning ballet here you the sense of rhythm be how you should use your feet how you should use your hand the control you need to have over your body it is like beyond imagination then it’s easier for that child to pick up any other dance form which is fast which has a lot of moves which has to do a lot of dangers so I believe the say classical dancing gets your body under control and it gives your brain to understand the sense of rhythm and anyone who can conquer classical form of dance can actually do any kind of dancing but you know it you have to choose but yeah that’s that’s what is the beauty of Indian classical dance so every time you see a performance you will actually learn about a story behind
[00:45:11] Blue: interesting it’s like you mentioned that it depicts Lord Krishna’s childhood and playing peekaboo or something like that so that’s like actually part of the dance is what you’re saying that it tells that story
[00:45:22] Red: yeah so I’ll be when I’m dancing I’ll actually be two characters in the story I’ll be as a mom I’ll be like coming into the room and making butter and making everything and make food and then I’ll switch a different character of Krishna who’s actually checking what is mom doing I mean I will slowly hide and fight two things behind which you know the little kids do so um so it’s you switch characters and you actually perform and tell this is what his mom is doing this is what Lord Krishna is doing and then how they both come together so when I do classical performances here we actually narrate what the story is all about and while the narration is going I try to act a little bit of the character so that the audience understands what they are going to expect from this dance or what they’re going to see in this and then we start dancing in the song which is made for the story and then kind of complete the performance
[00:46:24] Blue: so it’s it’s interesting that I mean like there’s like several threads that are coming together in this which is part of what I find so fascinating about this so for instance you mentioned that the the moves from classical dance that if you can learn those that it teaches you how to do really any type of dance which that’s very fascinating into itself also the fact that it’s storytelling it’s acting it’s you’re some degree doing a theater performance yeah
[00:46:53] Red: so yeah that’s a very good good example like you know the theater performance as when we go to a theater and we actually see a player or something how engaged can be with the actor same thing is it’s very challenging I mean it’s very challenging for the actor to engage the audience and keep the attention span of the audience looking at that person so I think it’s the same with the classical dancing as well where you’re not telling the story it’s just without using words you’re trying to describe in a song what the story is all about so even acting getting those expressions suppose I’m a demon I have to act like a body language and and the next minute I become Lord Vishnu who is who is killing this demon so when you paint the spots the the diversity which you have to get in your characters have to be so well managed with the timing so that the audience is not confused so they they have to they have to recognize each character in that minute and not get confused what this person is doing so that’s what is the most difficult challenging person of the dance this dance from and that’s why we need to practice so much in front of mirror to make sure that you know we are getting those characters clearly out there how much do you have to actually practice at least like for classical dancing you would have we start with the morning yoga you have to do some stretches and there are certain moves in the body you have to practice before you actually get the song but at least two hours a day is the minimum expectation then wow have to do
[00:48:50] Green: yeah amazing yes
[00:48:53] Red: at least two hours otherwise it is very difficult to get that posture get that and another biggest challenge is when you tell these stories it’s very important for your body not to feel tired because any story or Abhinaya which I’m talking about could go up to 10 to 15 minutes and that’s a long time to you know be on the stage and do the difficult moves and then use the stage and maintain your stamina throughout so until and unless you don’t regularly do every day that level of preparation is both get on the stage
[00:49:38] Blue: explain how this ties into the Hindu religion kind of the spiritual side of this and how does it relate to like you gave me a tour of the Hindu temple and and as you mentioned there’s all these sculptures there and Hindu scripture how does it all kind of tie together
[00:49:57] Red: yeah so so that again I mean the teacher plays a big role in telling you if you he’s teaching you a dance form or a song which is which is which is a mythological story which some point of the time happened in this art so there there is a big part is the explanation which goes behind that story where where the student needs to believe that that actually happened it would be the same thing like how we tell all the stories from Bible or from all the church stories which we tell to our kids we tell it with so much of passion and so much of you know knowledge so that the child actually feels you know you know you have this person really knows or something like this have really happened so so they kind of believe that you know we need to do this kind we need forgiving to our friends and family so that’s the same thing which goes behind so the big part is the explanation on what the teacher says about the story and then we learn all the history behind that God I mean there are books so we read books to understand that character what has happened how he has come into this art why he if like if for example Lord Shiva Lord Shiva is the Lord of power and Lord of energy and he went into the Himalayas and actually Medi he had done Medi for around over 50 plus years in a row so he had this long hair which which just grew and you know there was all
[00:51:51] Red: he actually meditated in a graveyard in Himalayas so he had all these bones skeletons and bones around him people were dying but he was just meditating ultimately he had gained that power and energy in him that he could do certain so when I have to represent Lord Shiva I read his books I go through his stories I go through the pictures if there are movies made on Lord Shiva and I watch those movies just to get that character and feel and then we want we decide what we want to depict from his life there are different stories for example there is a story where this whole humanity was in danger and there were two teams who were fighting for a blessing it was just like a holy water and this holy water whoever gains that person will never die so basically he will become powerful and will never die and in Hindi we call that power as Amar like you will never die so so to get this part a team of a team of demon and a team of the good people or what you say
[00:53:22] Red: they were fighting against each other and Lord Shiva and there was the story where if this falls down this holy water falls down into poison so when they were fighting against each other this actually this holy water fell down and because it’ll go around everywhere and it’ll kill people so actually Shiva came and drank this poison and he turned blue but he saved the humanity and the people around the earth so that’s the story which we are telling to our Dan so we so we read about it we think we kind of you know get into that zone and how this would have happened we go into small details that they’re fighting what could be the posture in the fighting what should be the equipment we should which was available on those days and how they fight and what should be the background looking like and all that so all that kind of research is so a lot of reading a lot of a lot of going to different places spending time with people who know about those stories is kind of the prep work we do before we get a performance out there
[00:54:36] Blue: wow that’s amazing so it really is a lot like theater and acting yes
[00:54:43] Red: yes it’s a lot of yeah a lot of acting I think that there is a balance of acting and dancing because of course it’s a dance form so there is a there is a good balance which you would find in acting and dancing yes it is a big part so that’s why even when we take a duo in Indian classical dancing we paint our eyes and put series in a way where there is so much focus in your face so I put a big red dot in the center of my eyebrows so you know that draws people attention those are the small detailing which is done like your face your eyes your ornaments you’re wearing your costume which you’re wearing I mean those are very thoughtfully planned so that it could grab people’s attention and it would kind of force people to look at you then it’s your job to move your body language in a way where they cannot take your eye off you so that the whole performance those are also the kind of preparation which we go through
[00:55:57] Green: do you do you find it’s hard to keep this cultural identity in this this art form alive now that you’re here instead of in India
[00:56:08] Red: yes because you know it’s difficult I think there it’s we just grow up with it so much it’s almost in our blood that you know we instantly realize or relate to what what my teacher is saying but over here you have to put an effort as in you know why this is like this or the story is like this or to make people you know get into that to get that feeling and then to express is difficult like my son he’s growing up here he doesn’t know any I mean he doesn’t know anything about Indian culture I mean whatever I tell or get time to so I have to tell a story and he’ll be like really so you know it’s it’s tough it’s tough it’s tough being away from India and trying to practice so that’s why I’m my next goal is to start practice classes in the temple where all these kids come all the Indian kids who’ve been staying away from India they just come and I’m practicing and I will offer them that practice with me and then I would be curious if they start asking questions and then I think I’m going to prepare some kind of content for them so that you know slowly they start liking the stories they want they since they like the stories they want to act it out things like that so there would be a little preparation which has to go but I think I’m going to do that very soon in Indian temple here
[00:57:40] Blue: that’s awesome all right well this has been very very fascinating and yeah I loved it yeah I love learning about stuff like this you know Sarika often eats lunch with me and this is like what we talk about a lot is she tells me teaches me about her culture and things like that that’s one of my favorite things of being friends with her is to be able to learn things like this and then I’ll explain things to her from our culture and things like that and it’s actually a very productive exchange well
[00:58:12] Green: please invite me um because I work pretty close to you guys I’d love to occasionally sit down and participate in that yeah and like me and you and Sarika
[00:58:20] Red: yeah thank you I want to meet you too so let’s plan on that yeah I would
[00:58:26] Green: like that very much
[00:58:27] Blue: I’ll set that up I’m sure Kerry would want to join too yeah
[00:58:31] Green: and we missed Kerry so
[00:58:32] Blue: yep hopefully she’ll we’ll get her next time but yeah all right well thank you guys this is uh been a great episode um and thank you for coming thank you
[00:58:43] Green: Bruce thank you Sarika
[00:58:44] Red: thank you Bruce thank you Camille
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